Alta Lakes Development Gains Key Commissioner Approval
by Seth Cagin
Mar 05, 2009 | 2063 views | 26 26 comments | 5 5 recommendations | email to a friend | print
ALTA OF TOMORROW – This map shows how land will be used if the Alta Subdivision given preliminary approval by the San Miguel County Commissioners this week goes on to final approval, as appears likely. <a href="http://watchnewspapers.com/pages/chart_alta"><b>Click here to see the larger version.</b></a>
ALTA OF TOMORROW – This map shows how land will be used if the Alta Subdivision given preliminary approval by the San Miguel County Commissioners this week goes on to final approval, as appears likely. Click here to see the larger version.
slideshow
High Country Mining Claims Would Become Public Open Space

Weighing what is proposed under an application for cluster development subdivision exemption versus what could occur by right under state law without local review as a 35-acre lot subdivision, the San Miguel County Commissioners unanimously gave their preliminary approval on Wednesday, March 4, to a subdivision near Alta Lakes.

“This breaks the heart of a lot of our residents because this is an area we never wanted to see developed,” Commissioner Art Goodtimes told the representatives from SMI, who attended Wednesday’s hearing. “And yet at the same time we understand private property rights and feel you have tried to reach out and address a lot of our concerns. I want to commend you for the work you have done to come to terms with some of the more difficult issues.”

If the application by Silver Mountain Industries moves forward to final approval, as now appears likely, there would be 28 homesites in the subdivision, with the potential for an additional 20 caretaker units. The same number of homes could potentially be developed under a one-parcel-per-35-acre development, but 28 caretaker units could be built. Moreover, the development under a clustered scenario would occupy approximately 73 acres, with the rest of SMI’s 847 acres dedicated to a combination of public and private open space.

Among the acreage that would be given to the county for open space are 307 acres of patented mining claims in the high country above Alta, which, if they remained in private ownership, could conceivably contain another 13 homesites. The open space to be conveyed to the county would also include 140 acres along the Boomerang Road corridor.

Other benefits of a clustered development as set forth in the application, versus a one-for-35-acre development, include public trails and parking, county ownership of Boomerang Rd., building design regulations, restricted building envelopes, dog restrictions, the location of the development in areas not visible from either Boomerang Rd. or the Alta Lakes, which would remain a recreation area owned by the U.S. Forest Service, and a water augmentation plan in order to preserve water levels in the lakes.

Under a 35-acre scenario, SMI could conceivable draw down Alta Lakes, because it owns the water stored in them. Under the approval, the county will require SMI to execute an agreement with the U.S. Forest Service to address the issue.

While the overall package of benefits won the day, there was a discussion before the commissioners on Wednesday about the overall level of development that could occur under the approval, and whether it is too much. The crux issue revolved around whether the development potential of the high country mining claims has been properly evaluated. In other words, attorney Doug Tueller, who represents several private property owners in the vicinity asked, what is it worth to the public to retire the development rights on claims that have legal development rights at a certain scale, but probably far less in the way of practical development rights.

“Is there a fair balance and trade going on?” Tueller asked.

“Your goal here should be to evaluate what’s really possible [in awarding density in exchange for creating open space],” said Hilary White, representing the grass-roots environmental group Sheep Mountain Alliance. “If this is going to be approved, the density and the impact up there need to be reduced.”

There are other ways to preserve the high country, White suggested, including seeking federal funds to acquire the mining claims.

Asked by Commissioner Art Goodtimes whether SMI would consider restricting the house size on some number of the lots to a level less than the 12,000 square feet permitted under the county land use code, SMI spokesman Mark Oligschlaeger said that given the costs of providing access to the subdivision, reducing the value of the lots is not feasible.

County Planner Mike Rozycki pointed out that he had not approached the exchange of density in exchange for open space mathematically. Rather, he focused his presentation upon the goals and objectives stated in the High Country Master Plan that encourage development programs that avoid development in the high country altogether. Rozycki noted that the Alta Cluster Development Plan avoided any development in the high country, which was the preferred outcome of the county policies stated in the master plan. By way of example, he pointed out that one of the mining claims that would go to county ownership is near the Wedding Chutes in Bear Creek (other parcels are situated above the Alta Lakes in the heart of the public recreation area.)

“Do we want to preserve Bear Creek, or do we try to assign a value in terms of square footage they are permitted in exchange for that parcel and all the other parcels?” Rozycki asked. “I think our goal is to protect Bear Creek.”

“It’s a little hard for me to swallow the density,” Commissioner Art Goodtimes said. But, he concluded, “we really want to see the high country preserved,” and he commended SMI for accomplishing that.

Commissioner Joan May said she was supportive of the application because the subdivision was not destined to become a bedroom community for Mountain Village, as it might have been under earlier development scenarios. SMI previously submitted and subsequently withdrew an application for annexation to Mountain Village, which included more density, including employee housing.

Commissioner Elaine Fischer emphasized the value of preserving land that might seem undevelopable, noting she has seen places developed that nobody ever expected could be.

SMI, a subsidiary of the Fortune 500 Leucadia National Corporation, which also owns the New Sheridan Hotel.
comments (26)
« Back2RealiT wrote on Saturday, Mar 21 at 05:27 PM »
I've changed my mind about lift 7, Telski doesn't need the government's help.
« Graysill Owner wrote on Saturday, Mar 21 at 03:07 PM »
Lift 7 area is a public blight.

It needs to be re-done so we can get some more interesting restaurants etc.

What the Town Council needs to do is issue building permits as requested..so we can get some money flowing into the town coffers and the folks over here on the West side of town can get some economic appreciation.

Also, Telluride Ski and Golf has proven to be a good steward of the public land and they should be allowed to re-develop their land adjacent to the lift.

Ok, have a great day.
« FaceOnMars wrote on Saturday, Mar 21 at 01:32 PM »
REPOSTING MY 10TH POST FROM BOTTOM FOR CLARITY:

Dr. T: Lucadia is well within their rights to develop their property as they see fit where it is allowable by right and done so in accordance with all governing land use codes. Moreover, they're certainly welcome to propose variances to the county in exchange for public benefit. I just personally would rather not see development up there. Yes, thcpa, it would be nice to live up there, but it would also be cool to have a house near half dome in Yosemite. I just feel you've got to draw the line somewhere regarding preserving national treasures vs. individual property rights. It's obvious Telluride missed the boat on becoming a National Park a long time ago, so it is a much more difficult & nebulous proposition. Regardless, as far as I am aware, I do not believe Leucadia is currently acting beyond reason, acceptable social boundaries, or the law.

On the other hand, Dr. T, Telski seems quite eager to suck on the public nipple in a variety of circumstances (i.e. TMVOA & TMRAO, Lift 7, expansion into Bear Creek, etc. etc. etc.). There is a significant & distinct difference between ALREADY POSSESSING DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS (Luecadia's case) & subsequently negotiating the allowance of variances in exchange for public benefit vs. pitching a plan to the public to HAND OVER DEVELOPMENT rights from what essentially amounts to the absense thereof via an upzone (the case of Telski & Lift 7). Luecadia is leveraging their existing development position, whereas Telski is apparently asking for a gift from the Town of Telluride.
« FaceOnMars wrote on Saturday, Mar 21 at 01:29 PM »
"Neil": eminent domain is part of the bargain of private property rights; and I do support private property rights (read 10th post from bottom).

It also appears that you assume I was in favor of the VF condemnation ... since you accused me of "wanting to run what I don't own"! False.

"Not APG" (assuming you're different than "Neil):

I've never told Riley how to run his property; in fact, he can do whatever the heck he wants to do with Telski owned land. It's National Forest Service land and the respective lease agreement which is always open so review ... a point you seem to conveniently omit.

Enjoy your little dance, since you are bound for more frustration on such a path you've chosen.

And keep the chorus of "hot beds, hot bed, hot beds" going .... since comments like those directed at Johno expose your motives and how you truly value (or lack thereof) visitors!

« Not a pro-growther wrote on Saturday, Mar 21 at 12:15 PM »
A property owner. Someone who has worked and saved and intelligently invested in property.

Yes, we shall dance in public when we feel.

Now, how about you run off and tell Mr. Riley how to run his property?

« Neil Blue wrote on Saturday, Mar 21 at 12:05 PM »
Whose agenda are you talking about, Mr Face On Mars?

Not mine, I just wanted to own what I bought, not have it taken from me. Same with the Alta developers-they bought it and they will develop it, albeit with tremendous compromise (clustered housing).

You,sir, just want to run what you don't own to meet your needs.

I have no qualms about saying Shame On You.

Neil
« FaceOnMars wrote on Saturday, Mar 21 at 10:20 AM »
I'm merely observing that some in the pro-growth & "let's increase our inventory & bed base" at all costs crowd is getting very frustrated given the vast ambitions some have reflected in their statements & actions.

"Hi Johno's" response (probably you), was not a REAL response to Johno, but a "small claim to victory" by a pro-growther who's been frustrated overall & wanted to do a little victory dance in public. It was very transparent.

Don't you believe our visitors deserve more than being USED to promulgate an agenda?

(I could say "shame on you", but I'm always weary of statements which tell me how I should judge.)
« Neil Blue wrote on Saturday, Mar 21 at 08:32 AM »
Mr. FaceOnMars..are you suggesting that there is a difference between bopping a tourist on the head to take his money and legally bopping me on the head to take my land?

And what about the property owners at Alta Lakes...should we bop them on the head and take their property for the cross country ski team?

Private property rights are the foundation that our rule of law is built on. Mr. Face On Mars, you have no respect for others investments in privat property rights, as in Telluride Ski and Golf Company; you would set their rates, their direction, their employment policies-but for that you are not an owner. You are just another fascist liberal who would "bop" them for your benefit.

Shame on you, Mr. Face On Mars.

Neil
« FaceOnMars wrote on Saturday, Mar 21 at 08:06 AM »
The post by "Hi Johno" appears not only to be condescending, but also very insincere in so far as truly appreciating Johno's family visits to the area.

Those who've been calling the loudest for increased tourism seem to forget that PEOPLE who visit can think for themselves are are not a means to an end.

I've said it all along, why not just bop people over head and take their money ... it's a lot easier than going through this long elaborate charade.
« Alta wrote on Friday, Mar 20 at 10:17 PM »
So one day in the future when the property owners have all exercised their rights and everything has been developed, aged and turned into urban blight our children's children can enjoy what we have created for them. Whoa!
« Hi Johno wrote on Friday, Mar 20 at 12:42 PM »
Glad that you are an annual visitor to Tell.

Sorry to break your heart.

We dont have to develop land like this..it is the pronoun that has you confused. The property owners develop land like this. If you wanted to risk your neck and buy the land and not develop it, good on you..

But for now, the property owners, exercising their property rights, are developing it. And not even Hilary can stop them.

Whoah!
« Johno wrote on Friday, Mar 20 at 07:39 AM »
This is so sad. As an annual visitor to Telluride this breaks my heart. Our families have hiked and cross country skied this area for many years. Why do we always have to develope beautiful land like this? This almost seems criminal. I guess the open space fund has been depleted since preserving the valley floor.

« FOM nli wrote on Tuesday, Mar 10 at 07:51 AM »
I'm curious as to why that might be funny?
« Dr. T wrote on Monday, Mar 09 at 11:38 PM »
Oh, I forgot Face was a private property rights advocate. That's funny.
« FaceOnMars wrote on Friday, Mar 06 at 07:19 AM »
Dr. T: Lucadia is well within their rights to develop their property as they see fit where it is allowable by right and done so in accordance with all governing land use codes. Moreover, they're certainly welcome to propose variances to the county in exchange for public benefit. I just personally would rather not see development up there. Yes, thcpa, it would be nice to live up there, but it would also be cool to have a house near half dome in Yosemite. I just feel you've got to draw the line somewhere regarding preserving national treasures vs. individual property rights. It's obvious Telluride missed the boat on becoming a National Park a long time ago, so it is a much more difficult & nebulous proposition. Regardless, as far as I am aware, I do not believe Leucadia is currently acting beyond reason, acceptable social boundaries, or the law.

On the other hand, Dr. T, Telski seems quite eager to suck on the public nipple in a variety of circumstances (i.e. TMVOA & TMRAO, Lift 7, expansion into Bear Creek, etc. etc. etc.). There is a significant & distinct difference between ALREADY POSSESSING DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS (Luecadia's case) & subsequently negotiating the allowance of variances in exchange for public benefit vs. pitching a plan to the public to HAND OVER DEVELOPMENT rights from what essentially amounts to the absense thereof via an upzone (the case of Telski & Lift 7). Luecadia is leveraging their existing development position, whereas Telski is apparently asking for a gift from the Town of Telluride.
« skool's good wrote on Friday, Mar 06 at 07:00 AM »
Ok Face, try to rant without the run-on sentences. Even wingers will sound smarter if they at least attempt to sound literate.
« Face wrote on Thursday, Mar 05 at 08:34 PM »
Good evening..my VF primer on the public condemnation brings up a few sore points, ie the taking of private property for the public benefit, the taxation ie, the sales tax to finance the VF wilderness (talk about taxation without representation..buy a beer, give a $1.80 so the nordic bunch can ski) and the comical reports by the environmental company,given in hushed tones, about a piece of property full of tailings, abandoned buildings, sewer lines, electrical lines, with a shell station plum in the middle of it..and not an elk to see this winter...

One of the posters had mentioned the possibility of such a travesty for the alta lakes property..although it is much more pristine than Idarado's old tailing toilet...yet listed prominently in the article is Goodtimes admission that it was the best that could be had..in lieu of build by right..

Seriously, Face, you complain continuously about your $200 lift ticket increase while encouraging moratoriums on development for property owners (lift 7) that will surely cost them more than $200 in long term damages (accepting the fact that restrictions on development possibilities impair the value of property)...you own exactly none of the ski hill but you complain ad infinitum about Lift 9 (slow, needs to be replaced), Bear Creek, Rev Bowl (never open), Riley (he exists), the price of a plate of alfredo at the seasonal restaurant (kids portion)...always the first in the criticism line while finding nothing positive to say...

Ever.

Here, I will find something good to say about you.."faceonmars can be counted to keep these boards interesting.."

Ok, good night.
« Face- wrote on Thursday, Mar 05 at 08:22 PM »
« tax increase? wrote on Thursday, Mar 05 at 08:19 PM »
What tax increase? Another lie from the Telluride's wingers?
« Dr. T wrote on Thursday, Mar 05 at 06:19 PM »
Come on FaceOnMars, are you not going to bash Lucadia and the principals of the company - or is that kind of talk only reserved for Telski and Riley?
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